Via alert reader @Susie, photos have emerged on Tanzanian social media of an object that looks very much like a control surface from an airliner. Here’s what Bing Translator makes of the original Kiswahili:
Wing of the plane have been conflict and civilians today in the Indian Ocean on the island of Kojani. Made known is what airlines.
A place where it is believed to the remains of the plane have been caught in the Indian Ocean Island beach in Kojani.
Wing of the plane was found in the island of Kojani, is eliciting a great debate among the inhabitants of the island with many believing it is the wing flight of malaysia which was lost without a known future. Airlines of Malaysia Airlines with type MH370, it had disappeared March 8 in 2014 has never been visible until today.
Though still no certainty is what bird fossils, experts of air travel have started initial stages of the investigation of the wreckage of the plane.
Reports say security officials already have started to investigate the wing and probably not long we get enough information from entities involved
Kojani is a small inhabited island near Pemba, about 50 nautical miles north of Zanzibar and 500 miles north of the beaches in Mozambique where MH370 debris has previously been found. It has been described as “one of the least accessible villages [of Pemba], located on an islet off the eastern coast of the main island. At the last count Kojani was home to more than nine thousand people.” While still south of the equator, it is by far the northernmost debris from MH370 identified so far, if that is indeed what it is.
Its appearance is strongly reminiscent of the flaperon found on Réunion island, although there seems to be none of the broken-off hinge attachments and so forth that were visible on the ends and underside of the flaperon. Also, there is a very visible waterline, which the flaperon lacked. It would be interesting to know if this waterline corresponds with that observed by the French investigators when they put the flaperon in their test tank in Toulouse.
So what is it, exactly? Commenter @Rob suggests it “Might be a piece of inboard flap.” @Ken Goodwin writes “Though the part has the shape of a wing part. It does not jog the memory. Closed large end with no fittings. Surface with no fittings. ???” Of course it might not be from MH370 at all. But if it is, it breaks from the recent trend of debris items being small enough to hold with one hand.
I hope that somehow this object finds its way into the hands of independent investigators who can examine it before it disappears into the black hole that is the Malaysian investigation.
UPDATE 6/24/16: New photos from Jamilforums below.
For references, here’s a shot of the outboard end of the right flaperon found on Réunion:
In both pieces it seems that the main structure is aluminum, with the curved leading edge made of composite material.
The ”round hole” looks very similar to that of the Reunion flaperon.
I get that it’s newsworthy when debris is found.
But why has the discussion here become so debris-centered over the recent months (to the detriment of all other aspects of MH370’s vanishing)? It’s as if every new piece told us more about what happened, when in reality it doesn’t.
Niu Yunu, There are other things to discuss, to be sure, and I’ll address some of them soon. But in the meantime, if there’s something you’d like to address, by all means jump in.
The first inboard part of the outboard flap seems to have only two hinges that go straight in the leading edge keeping the surfaces there clean till the first flap fairing (comparing pictures).
I think one of it’s remnants is visible half way the leading edge (not sure).
If the photo is not mirrored and it is the first piece of an outboard flap it must be the one from the right wing.
Fastener rows and compartments seem to fit quite well also.
Niu Yunu,
MH370 is the worlds biggest aviation mystery. Every single (possible) debris find surely deserve its own discussion and attention. Without a doubt.
There was a long time we waited for a single piece of debris.
Now its there and we must focus on it.
Next time something will be found in Somalia. Drift studies may even support more northern locations as the equatorial area splits the direction of the currents.
@Ken Goodwin
Possibly from a sailboat, somewhat more likely a part torn
from a refrigeration unit on a container or from a whole
containerized refrigeration unit – smashed by a wave.
@All
The piece has a convex/concave/convex profile on its upper surface, underside in the photo, whereas the aircraft flaps have a purely convex upper surface profile. Not from MH370, probably
I don’t suppose it might have come from a 767? Pemba isn’t too far from the Comoros Islands.
I’d be gutted if it wasn’t from a 777, though.
Running various locations through the adrift website it seems possible for debris to strike land where the Tanzanian piece has from start points northerly and southerly. What is still important is the lack of debris in Australia.
By the way @Ge Rijn, Rob – if you google 767 flap carriage ass’y, the second image may be of interest to you WRT another piece we discussed. I’m not sure. Just the seals look familiar.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boeing+767+inboard+flap&biw=1180&bih=877&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjftqnB877NAhVHIMAKHc_-BbIQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=boeing+767+flap+carriage+assembly&imgrc=_
Sorry if my remark came across the wrong way. I did by no means want to discredit the discussion.
I just wondered if it would be worth taking a step back and summarizing the added value of the debris discussion in terms of what it tells us about MH370’s disappearance.
What I retain (assuming the debris is genuine):
1) The plane didn’t sink in 1 piece (which was highly unlikely anyway).
2) The plane crashed somewhere in the SIO.
3) Reverse drift modelling point to a crash site further north of the BFO/BTO-data driven models.
What other things did the debris tell us ?
And:
What can we learn from new pieces of debris, that we did not already know from the ones already discovered ?
Crash investigators physically examining the debris might learn more with each single piece, but unfortunately we are not in that position.
@Niu Yunu
We discuss all things relating to MH370 on this forum. Naturally, debris finds are of interest, and indeed of value.
Understandable, when the Malaysian authorities, the people who probably know more about what actually happened and why, than anybody else are being as unhelpful, nay as intransigent as they could possibly be.
In such an environment, every possible piece of evidence should be considered as important
Here’s a better translation of the piece. I speak Swahili and live near here (in Dar es Salaam).
A big aircraft wing has been found today by locals at the Indian Ocean area of Kojani Island, Pemba. Its not known what company the aircraft belongs to.
A section that is believed to be the remains of an aircraft has been discovered in the Indian ocean on the coast of Kojani Island, Pemba.
The aircraft wing that was found in the ocean at the small island of Kojani (Pemba, Zanzibar) has set of a great debate among the locals of this island, many of them believing that it is the wing of the Malaysian plane that was lost without trace. An airplane of Malaysian airlines, flight MH370 was lost on March 8 2014 and has never been seen until today.
Although its unknown what plane these remains belong to, air transport experts have begun the first steps of investigations into these airplane parts.
Emerging news says that security officials have already begun in-depth investigations of this wing and it should not be long before we get fuller explanations form the relevant authorities.
By the way (I’ve been sailing here for 15+ years and know the currents well):-
If this part came from central Indian ocean there is no doubt that it must have traversed across the top (N end) of Madagascar.
The south equatorial current “splits” at around the TZ/MZ border (Cabo Delgado) – going south below that (eventually becoming Agulhas Current) and north above it (eventually becoming Somali current).
Anything arriving at Pemba could have arrived from points East of there, or could have converged on E coast of Madagascar, swept across N tip, and then been carried N from there.
Reader Ge Rijn could well be correct. It seems that the inboard flap supports are at the outboard end and at approximately mid-span. The inboard half of the flap is then cantilevered from those two supports, and has boken off at the mid-span support. The reason that the flap is not supported at the inboard end is the main undercarriage. The retraction of the undercarriage leaves no structure to attach a flap support on.
Ok, what helpful things does it tell us ?
I listed 3, what else ?
And what does the 11th piece tell us, that the previous 10 pieces didn’t ?
@Niu Yunu
And just why really is your point? Or are you merely intent on being divisive?
I get the impression that you actually know the answers to the questions you pose, anyway.
@ Paul Smithson,
These posts are what I’d call very helpful indeed. Thank you for sharing this information and for your great translation.
@ Niu,
Plenty has been discussed here recently, much of which was nothing to do with items of debris. I find all of that discussion washes over my head. But it doesn’t mean people shouldn’t have the right to talk about it, if it interests them.
There is a lot that each piece of debris – particularly a large piece – might be able to tell the casual, but interested, observer.
I don’t believe I need go into detail about this; as Rob says, you sound as though you know the answer.
If it’s boring to you, I’m sorry for that. Do you have some other topic or aspect of the topic that you would prefer to discuss, at this juncture?
I’m sure people would be happy to, if you want to start us off.
@Paul Smithson
Sir, have any small planes, like the size of a Cessna, gone
missing near there, possibly into the ocean, recently?
@ Rob: I don’t deal in ad-hominem attacks.
@ Susie: “There is a lot that each piece of debris – particularly a large piece – might be able to tell the casual, but interested, observer.”
Ok. Again, what helpful things does it tell us ?
I tried to make a summary and went ahead and started with 3 points. That’s all I can think of from the top of my head (despite allegations to the contrary). Maybe someone wants to add further points (instead of saying there are valuable points, but we cannot name them :).
I am by no means an expert on aviation or airline crashes, so my question may be horribly naive, but here goes:
What, if anything, can be deduced as to where the flight of MH370 ended with regard to where this debris is washing ashore?
@Niu Yunu: you and your detractors are, I feel, both correct:
– yes, each new piece of debris now seems to tell us very little, yet
– yes, we should pay attention to them, because they’re the only new evidence we’ve got
There are 2 reasons why the new bits tell us very little:
A) Sadly, the location and timing of these finds can no longer differentiate the 3 main debris theories:
1. Planted (would’ve been easy to drop debris into IO months ago; way easier than spoofing ISAT data)
2. escaped portion from impact at embarrassing site: nearly any IO theory is supported by East African finds 2 years on
3. leading edge of debris from impact in current search box: while what was (and wasn’t) found in months 1-22 COUNTER-indicated the search box, the 2016 finds, in my opinion, don’t.
B) additional forensic information – such as buoyancy & failure modes, confirmed by expert official analysis – is either not being done, or is being withheld.
It is B) upon which I think our attention (and lobbying efforts) should focus – because neither of those possibilities is acceptable.
An additional course of research might be to explore why a few dedicated journalists, “experts”, and private citizens – both pro- and anti-establishment – have been working hard to try to convince audiences – sans evidence, or even basic logic – that the location and timing of recent finds DO help us differentiate among theories.
@Niu Yunu, If you find this forum interesting, then please pitch in. If you don’t find it interesting, then look elsewhere. If you continue to simply sit here and snipe, you will be banned.
@ Brock: thank you for thoughtfully seizing my questions!
@ Jeff: I have no clue, what you are talking about. I was being sniped at, not the other way round.
I am merely posing an important question.
@Ge Rijn,
Apologies, I posted a response but it did not appear (must have pushed the wrong button).
I misread your original post, the APU would not start under the conditions I listed….I was referring to the APU dc fuel pump; not the APU.
OZ
Looking at the size and condition of the new piece and if confirmed to be from MH370, would put some question marks on “high energy impact” and “flutter” theories.
On a further note, there seems to be some kind of rectangular feature on the right of the front wall. The image is too grainy to make out what that is, but it could possibly some kind of ID plate, or its outline, if there should be one but its missing.
@Niu Yunu
IMO the importance of debris and especialy this debris (if it’s from MH370) supports or not supports the current search zone.
If this piece gets confirmed (and I’m almost sure it will) it’s final proof the current search zone is too much south and the plane did not impacted with a very high speed.
It’s therefore very relavant.
If it gets confirmed we’ve got two big controle surfaces survived this way with on both, trailing edges broken off the changes of a more or less controlled ditch and controlled flight get a lot stronger imo.
If confirmed drift patterns have to be adjusted and Inmarsat data and other data interpretated with other views.
The importance of this piece is therefore vital to discuss.
If debunked the sooner the better but till that time this a key find.
@Jeff Wise
And oke you refere to @Rob in your latest topic but it was me who suggested an inboard flap and Rob who repeted this a view comments later. Not to get picky but to keep things straight.
First time posting. I’ve been reading this forum for at least a year now.
Any new debris find always brings some interesting facets. For example, I see no biofouling on the lastest piece. The locations of each piece can help us revise any drift modelling. With more photographs (hopefully forthcoming) we should get a better sense of how this piece came apart.
It’s possibly another hint of evidence; a clue to a mystery. Lots of interesting comments and insight. I enjoy the discussion. Now back to lurking for me.
@OZ
Oke. But can you answer my question if your circumstances would occure (no fuel pressure in the line etc.) the APU will start in flight after left engine shut down also when the right engine still operates?
Suppose the latest piece of debris from Tanzania is deemed likely to have come from MH370. Who gets it – the French or the Malaysians/Australians? Remember when the flaperon was first discovered and everyone was so happy that it was going to France and not Malaysia? How did that turn out? At least the Australians have put out reports with pictures of the debris and accompanying evidence. The French? Mumble mumble – no report, lots of unanswered questions – it’s a criminal investigation, after all.
@Robert Bruce, Nice to hear from you, and thanks for your support. Jump back in anytime!
@sk999, Good point, but at least some of the French reports eventually wound up leaked, and were quite interesting, too. Of course there’s always hope then when the search is finally called off the Malaysians will have to issue their final report, and maybe they’ll reveal a great and detailed analysis of all aspects of the debris found thus far. I mean, it could happen.
@Ge Rijn,
Short answer is No.
OZ
this part looks different; was it identified already??
https://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/5871127470/in/photostream/
In regards to the debris find in Tanzania, wonder how long it will take to confirm or deny it as from mh370? I’ve heard through the grapevine (internet) that Malaysia has been remiss in picking up past debris finds, don’t know if that’s true or not….wonder if they want to really find the location of this plane or not.
@MuOne
The feature you mentioned, on the ‘side’ face of the debris
which is facing the camera, has what appears to be a line of
fasteners surrounding it. That suggests there is a hole behind
the feature, that the feature (is intended) to cover.
Elsewhere, something else – on the debris’ leading edge (see the
rightmost corner that is closest to the camera), there appears to
be a small dark coloured object about the apparent size of a half
hemisphere of a black golf ball…
@ Bugsy
Darren Chester has released a statement about this piece, therefore I would imagine it’s being taken perhaps more seriously than Blaine’s recent finds.
At least, I didn’t see anything released by him about those.
@All
No info from Egypt back boxes.Sending to FRANCE
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/investigators-say-they-cant-download-anything-from-egyptair-black-boxes/news-story/4de13dacda8f2ecb26b785a1e9b322f6
Looks more like an aluminium-skinned wing from a light plane???
In this picture you can see the first part of the outboard flap between the flaperon and the flap fairing has a clean surfuce and only a hinge going straight in the leading edge on the inboard side:
http://www.captainsim.com/products/x777/f/index.html
@DrBobbyUlich
thanks for yet another piece of information;
I will try to stick on topic;
n.b. if you download the picture and zoom in it’s clearly visible.
The link @falken posted shows the flap edge with in it an inspection door like the one visible on the ‘Pemba piece’ picture.
If it’s what I think it is the first part of the right wing outboard flap it’s the part right next to the allready found flaperon till that right wing flap fairing from which also allready a piece is found (Liam Lotter piece).
Clearly it has the aerofoil shape.
It can’t be a tailplane or it would already have been suggested and posibly identified as that seems the most obvious first choice to a novice like me.
More images added (thanks to WBR for heads up):
http://www.jamiiforums.com/threads/bawa-kubwa-la-ndege-laokotwa-kisiwani-pemba.1070044/
@Susie
Thanks. Very clear pictures. Obviously not a wing part from a light aircraft.
It’s got all the features of a flap part of a big aircraft.
Final identification will follow soon I’m sure.
I’ll bet it’s B777 and MH370.
Remnants of a large hinge are clearly visible. I assume it shows the hinge remnants on the flap fairing side.
@ Ge Rijn,
You can see the hinge section sticking up in the original photo published yesterday, at the farthest end. I did wonder what that was.
Yes they are marvellous photos aren’t they. I agree it’s unlikely not to be from a large aircraft.
@Susie
Yes, I wondered also and see it clearly now too; a huge hinge attached on that side visible on the first picture.
It must be the first section of the right wing ouboard flap but I know I take three steps ahead with such a conclusion..